In this conversation, Daniel O’Connor and Dustin Olsen discuss the current state of the rare earth market, focusing on Australia’s strategic initiatives, the challenges posed by China’s dominance, and the global implications of these developments. They explore the need for a sustainable approach to rare earth production and the importance of industrial policy in reducing reliance on foreign sources.
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Takeaways
- Australia’s $1.2 billion strategy aims to stabilize the rare earth market.
- Concerns exist about the effectiveness of stockpiling raw materials.
- China’s control over heavy rare earths poses a significant challenge.
- India is adopting a more proactive industrial policy for rare earths.
- The global race for rare earth resources is intensifying.
- Sustainability in rare earth production is crucial for future supply chains.
- Retail investors need better insights into the rare earth market.
- Technological advancements are necessary for efficient recycling of rare earths.
- The geopolitical landscape is shifting with respect to rare earth resources.
- Collaboration between countries is essential for a stable supply chain.
Chapters
- 00:00 Introduction and Website Updates
- 01:57 Brazilian Rare Earths and Strategic Potential
- 04:00 China’s Ambitious Deep Sea Mining Efforts
- 05:57 The U.S. Vulnerability in Rare Earth Supply Chains
- 08:09 Australia’s Mineral Stockpile Initiative
- 09:09 Australia’s Strategic Mineral Stockpile Proposal
- 13:55 India’s Industrial Policy and Rare Earth Strategy
- 19:07 Building a Platform for Investors
Listen to the REEx Podcast
(opens in a new tab)Transcript
Dustin Olsen (00:00.834)
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Rare Earth Exchanges podcast. This week you’ve got myself and Daniel and we’re talking about some of the current events that are going on. Some big things that are moving and shaking. So Daniel, how have you been since we last met?
Daniel O’Connor (00:15.809)
Well, it’s been busy. We have a lot going on with the website, Dustin. mean, maybe we should update people just a little bit about what’s going on with rareearthexchanges.com. The traffic is exploding. Maybe you want to just provide a minute overview of what we’re adding to the site.
Dustin Olsen (00:36.93)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, so those who follow us, who subscribe, you know, you’re already in the know, but we’ve, we’ve added a, NDPR, deposit and project ranking. we, did a whole podcast on that, a couple of weeks ago and talking about how, how it works, why we, did some of this. So that’s on there. We, just updated it today. so.
Take a look at that, we got some things that are going on. And of course we’ve got our forum that’s gaining some momentum and traction there with people who just want to join the conversation. So yeah, that’s it.
Daniel O’Connor (01:34.219)
Can you hear me okay? Yes, I can hear you. Can you hear me?
Dustin Olsen (01:41.09)
Yeah, it really is. so last week we met with Brazilian Rare Earths. What’s your key takeaways from that conversation we had?
Dustin Olsen (02:36.406)
Yeah, really seems like, and it seems like a very unique situation that they found themselves in, unlike some of their competitors.
Daniel O’Connor (02:40.317)
Okay, well that’s a great update Dustin. It’s exciting to see how the website’s advancing.
Daniel O’Connor (02:58.207)
I think it’s really exciting. I think they have a very potentially valuable series of deposits. It’s a massive area in northeast Brazil.
It’s situated very strategically near a port. It’s in the Bahia region. have rich, from the measurements that we’ve seen, it’s high concentrations of key rare earth elements.
And it’s near a petrochemical processing region right adjacent and they want to try to do a deal and do processing, so refining. I think it’s got a lot of potential, Dustin, a lot of potential.
Dustin Olsen (03:31.21)
Absolutely. 100%. So I’ll be excited to see what they they do. So anyway, so circling back, what what is in the news this week that stood out to you? What do you want to us off with?
Daniel O’Connor (03:53.215)
Yes, yeah, they have the potential, if they can find the right partners, they have the potential to actually help the United States, I believe, become more independent of China.
I will say though that they’re business people and we’re trying to connect them to certain people that might be able to introduce them to folks in the government. They could easily sell, for example, to China, Chinese companies. I’m hoping that their business development marketing effort connects with the right investors and the right folks inside the United States government.
Daniel O’Connor (04:51.361)
Yeah, so one interesting first piece of news is a subsidiary of China Min Metals, which is one of the biggest state, partially state-owned, rare earth conglomerates, is breaking ground with a new deep sea mining effort.
I think it’s the first ever domestic environmental impact statement approved by the International Sea Authority. It’s one of the first companies that is going to start at least a pilot effort looking at rare earths in the sea.
Dustin Olsen (05:28.654)
Yeah, that’s honestly, it’s honestly crazy to think of deep sea mining. Um, when we have our own struggles on dry ground, I just, can’t imagine the struggles we’re going to find under the water. So, um,
Daniel O’Connor (05:32.659)
It seems to be a first. That’s according to the media from the Chinese company. We have to validate that with other media sources and other sources on the ground potentially. The milestone represents, you know, really China’s ambition to develop strategic critical minerals directly from seabed resources.
Dustin Olsen (05:48.942)
But yeah, I think you called it out perfectly of it. China’s not messing around. They’re very ambitious and they’re gonna find resources wherever they can.
Daniel O’Connor (05:54.635)
positioning that country as a leader in international deep sea mining. Now we’ve been critical of deep sea mining. We believe we’re kind of a long ways off from having that be prime time. But this latest news is interesting and could be significant. Again, the company, the parent company is…
China Min Medals, okay? And there’s a subsidiary company that’s involved with the actual deep sea effort. So that’s one piece of news, Dustin, that caught our attention.
Dustin Olsen (06:38.53)
Yep. Yeah. Cause they’ve dominated the, the midstream market, right? The, the process, the production of magnets and things like that. but they need something to feed that, that machine that they’ve built and then what happens after it, right? can they control the product that, that they produce? which is where we see companies like BYD come from, right? so.
Daniel O’Connor (06:51.957)
Yeah, yeah, it’s very, very interesting.
Daniel O’Connor (07:12.193)
Yes, They’re, you know, again, they need ever-growing sources of deposits. So, you know, it’s a whole ecosystem and supply chain, right, from upstream, midstream, downstream. And what they’re doing is upstream, they’re constantly looking for more sources. And downstream, they’re constantly looking how to innovate.
and differentiate from the West.
Daniel O’Connor (07:50.987)
completely. They completely…
Yes.
Daniel O’Connor (08:13.055)
That’s right. That’s right. BYD is part of that strategy that we, when we first launched this new site, we identified a three-pronged strategy that I think it’s important to remind everybody. Phase one was monopolize the rare earth elements and some critical minerals.
Dustin Olsen (08:23.19)
A lot of don’t view it that way though.
Daniel O’Connor (08:32.949)
Phase two is the value added product, the innovation that comes from controlling that supply chain, so advancing new materials and steel and textiles and medical products, devices. Rarists are inputs for lots of different things, military applications. Then phase three is…
dominate with new types of green products like electric vehicles, for example, like BYD. And then the final phase is digital currency, is basically becoming the number one economy and having at least some governance over digital currencies. That’s why we’re in the situation we are. That’s why President Trump is…
Dustin Olsen (09:05.816)
Here we are. Yep. It’s a situation where we’re just like, some people have already asked, how do we find ourselves here? But I’d say the broader population still hasn’t asked that question. They’re just not aware.
Daniel O’Connor (09:23.081)
hunkering down in emergency mode. Because in many ways, know, Dustin, it is an emergency.
Daniel O’Connor (09:33.665)
No, they don’t. Well, they just think it’s business as usual, but they don’t view an emergency that all of our critical minerals and rare earth elements are controlled by another country that could be an adversary. I they could be a trading partner and they could be an adversary. But, you know, that’s our leadership, our politicians, our corporate leaders.
Dustin Olsen (09:34.44)
Yeah. And for those who care, what else showed up in the news that how your attention
Daniel O’Connor (09:57.055)
that at every step along the way just sort of made short-term profit-driven decisions, you know, leaving the U.S. civil society to be in a very vulnerable place. And here we are.
Daniel O’Connor (10:30.025)
I mean, the broader population, there’s people, they’re just thinking about fishing or, you know, when they can go hunting or playing ball or, you know, working on their car. You know, most people don’t care about this kind of stuff. But some people do.
Dustin Olsen (10:40.478)
So yeah, let’s, let’s talk about that. Right. Cause in a way I could see it kind of like, the climate here in the United States, right? The people just, they’re not dialed in. They’re, more interested in their own hobbies and their own lives. Right. They don’t understand the bigger picture. So do you think that’s the same situation in Australia of, we don’t support this or what, what’s your take on that?
Daniel O’Connor (10:49.153)
Okay, all right. Well, we covered this before, we kind of covered it again. Australia is working on this 1.2 billion Australian, that’s about 800 million or so, mineral stockpile to stabilize supply chains and reduce dependence on China. Again, part of this quote unquote ex-China market that’s growing. The reserve targets critical minerals like lithium and cobalt.
as well as rare earth elements. It’s interesting, industry leaders have had mixed reactions with some.
seeing the potential benefits and others warning that it could distort markets. So it’s interesting that this stockpile that Australia is working on, Dustin, that everybody is not behind it, which I found kind of interesting that everybody’s not behind it.
Daniel O’Connor (12:08.277)
Well…
It’s different because these are insiders. Let me give you some examples. We covered this when it was first announced and recently mining.com covered it again. The writer, I want to give her credit. I don’t know if I have her name here, but we like to give people credit when they write things.
Okay? And she spoke with some people about this. So as an example, Wylum Meadows, CEO, Luca Giacobazzi, he praised the concept as a hybrid solution that could empower Australia to negotiate at the country level.
especially when individual companies are too small to compete with vertically integrated Chinese entities. So remember that concept, Dustin, that the Chinese companies are mostly state-owned or partially state-owned, and they’re not really free market actors. They’re state actors, right?
So you need, the pro for this is you need the state to come in, in this case Australia, support with like a stockpile, okay? Can you hear me okay?
Daniel O’Connor (14:58.593)
Good.
Daniel O’Connor (15:06.229)
Dusted.
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