In this episode of the Rare Earth Exchanges podcast, Dustin Olsen and Daniel O’Connor discuss the current state of rare earth elements, their impact on the automotive industry, and the challenges associated with processing these critical materials. They emphasize the need for a robust industrial policy to address supply chain vulnerabilities and the importance of investing in trade professionals. The conversation also explores the roles of smuggling and intelligence in the rare earth market, the future of robotics, and the need for a unified vision in addressing these issues.
Chapters
00:00 The Current State of Rare Earth Elements
03:00 Impact on the Automotive Industry
05:28 Challenges in Processing and Supply Chain
07:57 The Need for Industrial Policy
10:13 The Role of Smuggling and Intelligence
12:42 The Future of Rare Earths and Technology
14:55 The Importance of Education and Workforce Development
17:26 Conclusion and Future Outlook
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Dustin Olsen (00:00.987)
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Rare Earth Exchanges podcast. You’ve got me and Daniel here this week talking about some of the juicy news that’s going on right now. Things are heating up. I’ve heard from Daniel more than once this week that it’s exploding right now. Like, have you seen this? He’s just like, every time I talk to Daniel, he’s like, have you seen this? Like, this is crazy. So Daniel, tell me what is on your mind right now.
Daniel O’Connor (00:27.383)
Well, again, we track all this news, so it’s just hard not to be amazed by what’s unfolding. I mean, it’s really happening. The Chinese have put on this export hold or this more constrained process to allow companies to access certain rare earth elements. basically, the Chinese are requiring
all Western companies to share a lot more information. They’re basically gathering intelligence as part of this process. They want to know your supply chain. These guys, they play a long game, Dustin, they’re not playing. So what’s happening is, it was really directed against the US. President Trump started this tariff process on Independence Day, I think it was, was it Independence Day? was it?
was it called Independence Day? I can’t remember anymore. either, yeah. But either way, know, so what’s happening is that European automakers and Indian automakers, for example, are really getting squeezed. don’t have, in some cases, production lines are stopping, okay, because they can’t get
Dustin Olsen (01:27.175)
Independent of the Asian life. I thought you were American. Real day? Or no?
Daniel O’Connor (01:55.051)
the materials that they need to make these magnets and other products. So it’s hurting and exposing the Western supply chains, rare earth supply chains. you know, we’ve been tracking, we’ll get into a couple of articles, but we’ve been tracking how German automobile manufacturing associations, Indian automobile manufacturing associations are sending delegations over to China, to Beijing, to try to get some relief.
In the meantime, the US has been pushing, they’ve been telling the news, Donald, President Trump, that, yeah, we’re going to have a talk with Ping, Xi Jinping, head of China. And it’s all coming down to rare earths. Everything that we’ve been talking about, Dustin, is true. If the government was listening to us and enabled or designed an industrial policy.
and said we’re gonna get very serious about this and we’re gonna talk about what the costs are gonna be. We can start to move over the next decade to a position and a place that’s independent. But this is crazy. It’s showing you how much leverage this nation has. It’s not right, it’s not fair, and we have to address it.
Dustin Olsen (03:14.929)
We really do. Yeah. There’s, there is so much that is going on and we’re starting to see the, the recourse, the impact, the, the byproduct of what took place at the end of February with all those executive orders, right? and so it’s, we’re, it’s finally starting to catch up. So it’s really interesting. so talking about the automotive industry,
which is a favorite industry of mine, is they’re feeling the squeeze. They warned early on that there would be consequences for increasing tariffs and having this trade war, right? And now they’re starting stopping the production line. But as a consequence, as we reported today, right, we saw Linus stock jump 12 % because people need
these resources and they have to get them from someone that’s not China. Right?
Daniel O’Connor (04:15.894)
That’s right. last night, I was up late and we saw that it was the next day in Australia and their stock price was surging because of that. Because of exactly what you said, Dustin, that their share soared just about 12 % reaching the highest level since February 2023.
And again, it’s over the concerns that there isn’t going to be access out of China. So we’re going to depend heavily on companies like Linus, Rare Earths, and also, of course, MP Materials in the United States, which we refer to as the treasure trove of American Rare Earths. So again, we’re not here to pick stocks. We’re here to educate retail investors about
considerations. mean these two companies are going to have a lot of power. I don’t see any way around it. Linus, Rare Earths and MP Materials, they’re pretty important.
Dustin Olsen (05:21.789)
yeah. There are going to be huge players in the market to come if you’re not already seeing that, right? The downside though, and we’ve heard this from the guests on our podcast is while that is great, China has the infrastructure for processing and whatever you can get out of MP materials, they’ve got to take off agreement. It has to go to China.
Right. so, so much is going to China anyway. we, as exciting as it is to have alternatives, we’re still stuck.
Daniel O’Connor (06:00.181)
Well, one thing, remember, MP Materials announced that they’re stopping that. So since this trade war, and we need to talk with, speak with them about the details, but they have announced that they’re going to really stop those processing shipments to China. And that contract, by the way, was going to end, I think, ahead one more year. Shang, I believe they’re called Shang Resources, is an investor in MP Materials, a minority investor.
and that’s who that processing deals with. They’re a Chinese company. I believe they’re partially state-backed. to your point, look, here’s the reality. Maybe 50, 60 % of the upstream material comes from China. That’s been somewhat diversified. Remember, if we opened up Greenland tomorrow, that wouldn’t solve our problems because it’s how you refine and process
this material. There’s a very important article on rare earth exchanges that we did a day or two ago. It’s about separation and how difficult that is. We trivialize it here and we act like the media here acts like, well, it’s no big deal. You just get the stuff and you pull it out of the ground.
It’s not like that. Especially with heavy rare earths, there’s no easy extraction path. And in fact, I wanna talk about that for a minute. For the military applications and other applications, heavy rare earths are key. Take dysprosium, China dominates that. And the selective dysprosium,
extraction process is extremely challenging, particularly when separating it from chemically similar yttrium. None of this stuff is easy. We don’t have a lot of capacity. We’re starting to see companies that may, especially from Europe or maybe from elsewhere, have some capacity, but we’re just getting started with processing.
Daniel O’Connor (08:21.502)
That’s true for Linus. That’s also true for MP Materials. And again, I don’t want to underplay what MP Materials is doing, for example. They have a magnet contract with General Motors. I mean, there’s big things that these companies are working on, but it’s going to take time. So in the meantime, what are you going to do in the short run, the next 12 months, where you need these magnets, components, assemblies for everything from electric vehicles to green energy to electronics to defense systems?
So this is where it’s all coming down to this trade war and rare earths. This is the bullseye, this is the tip of the arrow, this is where every problem is coming to.
Dustin Olsen (09:07.919)
Well, so to answer your question, where are we going in the next 12 months? There’s a bunch of vandalized Teslas. We could go raid them and steal the magnets out of the motors and everything. What do you think?
Daniel O’Connor (09:19.306)
Yeah, I don’t think that’s enough scale. and you know, frankly, yeah, I mean, I think it’s just terrible. mean, people need to learn how to channel their anger into some productive pursuit, for goodness sake. Yeah, that’s terrible. I mean, say what you want about Musk. He’s given a lot. you know, look.
Dustin Olsen (09:22.674)
okay.
Daniel O’Connor (09:46.377)
So we’re in this bind right now. So one of the things that we’ve been writing about into President Trump is you have to develop an industrial policy. It kind of goes counter to our culture, but it’s just a necessity right now. We did an interview with an academic gentleman from Thailand who also is affiliated with a university in, I believe, New Zealand or Australia.
and in England. he has a model, he simulated a model showing that if China cuts us off and we need to just start from scratch where we’re at and become fully resilient, that will take about 10 years and $100 billion.
Dustin Olsen (10:39.217)
Which is why.
Daniel O’Connor (10:39.419)
It’s mind boggling. Dustin, I’ve spoken with a couple of experts in the field who say they’ve heard that number before. Now, do we really need 100 billion? I don’t know, but we spent tens and tens of billions of dollars on COVID.
And I’m going to tell you, that was a, you know, it’s, this is, we have to, we have to basically create a whole new supply chain and we need tight alliances with partners. So where we’ve been critical of president Trump’s strategy is, you know, just declaring everybody sort of an enemy until they negotiate a better deal. No, we need a rare earth industrial policy. That means that Canada.
Australia, England, because the financing in London, and some other countries are tight partnerships. We need this tight critical mineral alliance. And this transcends any worries about tariffs and things like that. We really have more serious business. Your entire high-tech industrial capacity is basically
You know halted at some point so So we’re talking a big big deal, and that’s why this is really important what we’re doing We’re building out these you know before we get to the next article We’re building these rankings, and we have our NDP our ranking up, and it shows the top mines upstream We’re doing that that’s a light Rare earth we’re going to be doing that for heavy rare earths. We’re going to be doing that for
You know, separation and refining. We’re going to do it for metal, magnet production, magnets, assemblies, components, and then we’re going to do that for recycling. That’s going to help retail investors, Dustin, figure out where to put their money. Because the news, a lot of the news that we see out here is complete trash. It’s very, you know, superficial. Calling it superficial is being nice.
Dustin Olsen (12:51.591)
Dumpster fire maybe. Well, I mean, it makes sense. but this topic, I mean, one, it’s so niche and like how many people are going to dive into this?
Daniel O’Connor (12:54.854)
Yeah.
Daniel O’Connor (13:07.764)
Does a hundred billion dollars sound niche?
Dustin Olsen (13:12.171)
No. Nope. But up until earlier this year, I don’t think many Americans even cared about what a rare earth element was.
Daniel O’Connor (13:27.182)
I think most Americans still don’t care. But the reality is that the folks that running the government better care.
Dustin Olsen (13:36.711)
They better care. I think, I think that people are going to start caring more, especially now the downstream is starting to fill the effects of what’s going on. It’s always at the downstream level that you will hear the most angst. Right. And so we’re, we’re arriving there. because if cars can be made cars get more expensive.
Daniel O’Connor (13:46.844)
Yeah.
Daniel O’Connor (13:53.606)
Right.
Dustin Olsen (14:02.545)
then it’s cell phones, know, like people are just gonna start complaining. And we already have issues with inflation and you know, it just generally costs more to live that employment’s not keeping up with. so yeah.
Daniel O’Connor (14:19.515)
And that’s going to go higher, just digression, but important. The bond rates, there’s generally a subtle capital flight happening right now. I don’t know if technically we can call it capital flight. It’s skittish, the capital skittish, but the longer bonds are more expensive than even China’s, for example. So it’s going to become more expensive for us. that’s to your point, that’s when your average American is going to start to
say, well, hey, what’s going on here? Why are mortgages so high? Why is the cost still high even after we’ve had a business friendly government, quote unquote, business friendly government in place?
Dustin Olsen (15:04.455)
Right. Yeah. There’s big hurdles ahead. And I think also for the sake of this discussion, I don’t want to say that the new Trump administration is the cause of all of this that we’re seeing. Right. I think it’s decades of amazing, right?
Daniel O’Connor (15:25.538)
No, no, it’s sorry to interrupt, but no.
been going on for a long time.
Dustin Olsen (15:31.611)
Yeah, I think it was just, it was just a problem that was just been growing and growing. It’s the elephant in the room that nobody was talking about until, you know, president Trump showed up and poked the big bear and you know, it’s awake, you know? And so we’re, think we’re just, dealing with that. and I would just be remiss to say, president Trump caused all this like,
Daniel O’Connor (15:56.322)
No, no, no, no. This is an ongoing thing that every administration has been culpable for. Now, where President Trump gets credit is, you know, let’s just, the analogy would be this rare earth and a lot of our problems are a festering boil that’s got all kinds of like toxic, you know, ooze.
you know, every party puts a bandaid over it, know, and some gauze and makes it look, you know, like it’s okay. And what is this time Donald comes in and just rips it off and starts poking it and say, see, it’s, it’s not healthy, see, it’s splattering all over, but it’s true. And somebody had to do it. So I think, you know, I think he’s doing some very important things, right? You know, it’s just, you also have to have
your vision and your strategy has to align with how you can maximize positive change. And that’s key. That’s very key. we know this rare earth thing should be… Let me give you an example. This is important. I believe that this judge recently said that the IEPA…
emergency tariffs, that the tariffs were done based on this emergency declaration and they said that’s not legal. Well, I think if he would have tied it to the rare earth emergency, I think that’s a national security emergency and I think the federal judges would say, yeah, we agree. So I think the more targeted you get, the more tailored you get, the more I think he can have a very big positive impact.
What’s your thoughts?
Dustin Olsen (17:51.911)
I agree. I was talking to someone, they live out in DC and I talking about what they’re seeing over there and they made a very interesting comment and it feels like there isn’t a plan. And they would be fine with all that is going on if they would just share the plan. And so to your comment of…
Daniel O’Connor (18:16.633)
Right.
Dustin Olsen (18:21.571)
Yes, like we think that he’s doing these things, but he’s really not sharing the plan or why he’s doing anything. which just as the angst, the frustration behind it all, but because we are diving deeper, we are trying to see the bigger picture or guess or assume what that bigger picture is. It, we’re, I would generally say we’re okay. We’re, optimistic. We’re hopeful.
Daniel O’Connor (18:29.986)
Yeah.
Daniel O’Connor (18:51.224)
Right.
Dustin Olsen (18:51.853)
but a lot of people aren’t doing that. They’re not, they’re not at the same level. And so I think that’s, well, there’s a lot of good, there’s no general support.
Daniel O’Connor (19:09.88)
No, I think you’re right. I think there is a plan. The plan is there’s a sort of a high level script, which is I’m going to leverage the US economy, the power of the US economy to get better outcomes based on what me and my team declare are good outcomes. so, and he’s saying, I’m asking the American people to have some confidence that
that I know what I’m doing, I’m going to do that. And I think generally, you know, okay, that makes sense. So you create some chaos, you leverage it, you know, to, this is not new. Nixon did something similar in 71 or 72 when he unilaterally, you know, shook up the world and the US went from the Bretton Wood gold system to the dollar fiat system, which, you know, really was a radical move at the time. what Trump’s doing is not unprecedented.
It’s just the difference, the world’s changed. We have a bigger competitor, which is in China, which is getting really close to our economic size. They have the productive capability of much of the world. They’ve got this monopoly on these commodities that are, know, actually not just commodities, but highly sophisticated processes that, you know, generate inputs that you need for all kinds of high tech goods.
You know, I think they may have miscalculated a little bit, but that’s okay. Now you have to adjust, get focused, you gotta watch rare earth exchanges, and we have the answers, you know, give us a call, we’ll tell you what to do.
Dustin Olsen (20:49.413)
That’s right. Okay. what else? So something that stood out to me in some of the news that was reported this week is China is clamping down on rare earth smuggling, which just really struck me as really like smuggling, like as in people, as in drugs, as in rare earths.
Daniel O’Connor (21:05.739)
Yeah, yeah, yes.
Dustin Olsen (21:18.085)
We’re smuggling, which I guess, I mean, it makes sense. It’s a commodity that we need. Not just the United States, but the world. Like we all need this for our own industries, our own businesses that we’re running.
Daniel O’Connor (21:42.138)
That’s right. Yeah, the smuggling situation. So basically, they found out. We’ve been told by certain folks in certain networks that certain companies in, let’s say, Japan or South Korea were selling product that they weren’t supposed to be selling. China threatened them, said, if we catch you doing that, we catch you selling this to American defense contractors, we’re going to cut you off just like we’re doing them.
And now Beijing launches this multi-faceted, multi-agency anti-smuggling campaign targeting rare earth exports with new intelligence gathering requirements. So Western defense, auto, electronic industries face significant supply chains. So there’s pressure. Who knows, there even could be like front companies for intelligence agencies that are.
trying to get product over here, but it’s not that easy anymore. And that was the New York Times. Keith Bradshaw, who’s a pretty well-known publisher, identified some of this crackdown. yeah, mean, Vietnam seems to be a place where you’ve got to really keep an eye out if you’re in Beijing. And there’s a lot of the…
The demand is coming from Western defense firms, auto manufacturers, electronics firms. But what’s really interesting is what China is doing, and again, the New York Times piece talked about this, with this near freeze on exports, is they’re gathering intelligence. They’re forcing companies to go through a rigorous process of sharing everything they’re doing.
with this product. So what the Chinese are doing is they’re mapping these processes to understand and further you weaponize these products. these are not products, these are weapons. You have to understand that these companies that do this in China, they’re not companies that you worry about profit and loss. They say they do, you we report on their financial statements, what have you, but that doesn’t mean anything.
Daniel O’Connor (24:06.028)
tools of the state. Okay, and that’s what I don’t think Donald Trump, you know, our president, I don’t know if they really understand this. Like it’s hard for people, especially in the West, to get their hands around this, you know, their arms around it. It’s hard for them, you know. They don’t quite understand that this is not a free market problem. A free market problem isn’t going to solve our problem. This is like a war. And the only way, it’s just like World War II, you know.
If during World War II, had defense bonds or we had savings bonds that would fund the war effort. So that’s where our rare earth supply chain rankings and other products that we’re working on are going to be very important to help US investors and governments, our government and other Western governments.
direct capital in the right pathway to get maximum output. It’s got to be driven by a policy though, industrial policy. It’s not going to be just a market. So smuggling back to the smuggling issue, they’re locking down. They’re playing hardball. And I’m sure we’ll be seeing more about this, that topic.
You know, the 100 billion, if I have a little time, Dustin, I want to talk about that. So the interview I had was with Dr. Wei Meng, okay? And he is with, I have a hard time pronouncing it, is Dura, Dura, Duraikij Pundit University in Thailand, but also University of Western Australia. And basically, you know, in this comprehensive study, again, modeling
a scenario where we don’t have access. The US military could face a catastrophic 8 to 12 year capability decline. mean, our ability to build stuff just goes way down over this 8 to 12 year period. Again, they control 80 to 90 % of the rare earth refining and potentially all of this weaponizes resource control as a non-kinetic
Daniel O’Connor (26:29.832)
strategic deterrence mechanism. And the research estimates actually between $100 to $200 billion, that’s with a B, needed to rebuild a domestic rare earth and critical mineral supply chain to maintain US military technological superiority. Because remember, robots are the key. What a lot of people are not talking about are robots are coming, humanoids. Human robots are coming.
and they’re going to be powered by among other things, rare earth. You’re going to need them. A lot of the workforce in future is going to be robots.
The military battles are going to be robots, drones and robots, okay? And I’m telling you, you need these materials. these, again, I’m going to just go on the attack here a little bit on our political class. Every politician that’s been elected as president in this country has known that this problem exists. We went back to 2012 or 13, Congress did a huge report saying, this is a big problem, big problem, big problem.
So under every president, think probably starting around 2000 after 9-11 for some reason, we just said outsource it to China. So it’s been 25 years where we don’t really have that capacity. We don’t even have the knowledge. It’s there, there’s some small pockets, but we need industrial policy. So you know how Trump and his administration is talking about trade schools?
and the need for people to learn how to do real work again, not just study, I don’t know, gender sciences or whatever, right? Not that that’s bad, there’s something to that. Like we need to fund supply chain schools and mining and metallurgy and chemical and all kinds of different serious, disciplined, pragmatic.
Daniel O’Connor (28:39.487)
programs because that’s going to create jobs, it’s going to make us independent, and it’s only 10 years away if we want to spend $100 billion. That’s a lot of money.
Dustin Olsen (28:51.127)
Only. It’s a lot of money and a lot of time.
Daniel O’Connor (28:56.031)
It’s a lot of time, it’s not that, compared to where we’re gonna be if we don’t, it’s not good.
Dustin Olsen (29:01.703)
No, like in so many ways, I’d say it’s worth the time and the investment to diversify our dependence on other countries. Like I’ve said it before in an earlier podcast is like the world is too small. Like globalization, like we need it. Like we need each other to help each other out. It’s in instances like we’re in right now where everyone is beholden to the whims of China.
not anything against China, it’s just the situation, right?
Daniel O’Connor (29:36.883)
We don’t look, we don’t, I don’t knock China. They just are taking care of themselves and they’ve done a great job and we’ve helped them. It’s just that now we have to take care of ourselves. And that’s where I think Trump is right. His intentions and his general intuition is absolutely correct. It’s just what’s the vision and what’s paradigm.
Dustin Olsen (29:42.993)
What? 100 %
Daniel O’Connor (30:05.779)
by which you’re gonna go do this.
Dustin Olsen (30:07.911)
Yeah. Well, and that’s what I was saying earlier. He needs to share that so we can all rally behind him, but it’s hard to rally behind something. You’re just like, we’re hot and we’re cold. Are tariffs up or they down? Are we friends with China or are we not? it’s, it’s really tough right now, but if he would just share that vision, I think more people would rally behind him. Um, and I…
I do agree and I do support the idea of we need more trade professionals, people who are knowledgeable again here in the United States about how to mine, how to refine, how to process these rare earths and critical minerals. I think that is important and it is 2025 and I think…
not to say we have to be archaic about that approach. You mentioned robots and humanoids. The jobs that will come will be those who understand the mechanics of AI and machinery to bring us into the, truly into the century with that sort of technology and that sort of resource. Because yeah, I don’t…
If people are avoiding it because of manual labor, well, become the expert in building the robot, it’s going to do it for you. All right. That’s tool set we need.
Daniel O’Connor (31:33.864)
Well, yeah. I mean, I think we’ve become a culture of YouTube influencers and narcissism and the leisure. Everybody wants to have the good high leisure life. You see that on Facebook and the like. But that’s just not how greatness comes about. And that’s where we’ve lost our way, I think, a lot. have to go back to
Dustin Olsen (31:52.753)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel O’Connor (32:03.037)
not go back, we just have to go forward in adjusted way if we want the same amount of wealth and productivity. think, again, I’ve said this a few times, very much the right direction. one thing, I believe Trump has had a call with China’s
with Xi Jinping and I think it was a good call and we’ve been saying that. We have been saying Trump is going to have to take his tail out to China, okay? And he is going to take a trip. I think he’s been reading rare earth exchanges because we’ve said you have to go out there and you have to do a deal and you have to even maybe do a deal where they let some of our investment into their country.
They’re rare earth companies. We have to open up with China, but we also have to be resilient. We have to invest. Either that or, you know, let us invest in your companies. Don’t make them state based. Get the state out of them. Just make them private sector. Make a real market. No, seriously, if they were to do that, I mean, you’d have to trust that they would keep their word and that’s another matter.
If Trump goes out to China and they said, we’re going to, our state-backed companies, the state’s going to sell their interests, we’ll sell them to American or European companies and we’ll just let it be a free market. Well, there, I mean, that’s changed, but do think that’s going to happen, Dustin?
Dustin Olsen (33:49.317)
No, it’s entirely against their business culture.
Daniel O’Connor (33:50.301)
So
Daniel O’Connor (33:57.061)
Yep. Yep. But they did have their talk. I wanted to make sure I got that in there. I do believe he’s going to go out there. We’ll get something up on about it. And again, but even if Trump flies out there and there’s some accord and things seem to be better, we can’t forget this. You have to have an industrial policy. Again, the only scenario where I think you wouldn’t is if
seriously China had major reforms. Their government got out of these companies and they became just market, regular market capitalism like what we have. Then I would say that’s different, but I just don’t think that’s going to happen.
Dustin Olsen (34:42.021)
I don’t think it will. It’s too far against the way business has been done in China. They’re, they take the gladiator approach, you know, it’s race to the bottom. The last man standing is the winner. and just opening it up and saying, kumbaya, everyone come and hang out. Like, no, like I just, it’s just not in their, their nature and that’s fine. So.
Daniel O’Connor (34:56.71)
Yeah, yeah.
Dustin Olsen (35:10.159)
I hope you have some other hopes and aspirations for what will happen. I just, I’ve not seen that one come into fruition. So with that, Daniel, let’s wrap it up. Any final words to kind of sum up everything we’ve talked about today?
Daniel O’Connor (35:29.999)
Yeah, I think that I’m getting more more excited about what we’re building, Dustin, because there’s nothing quite like it. We aggregate all this news. think that 30 % of its original content from studies are just writing that you wouldn’t see anywhere else. And we have the other informational part of the website. We have the…
the rankings and that’s going to expand across the supply chain. The forum where more more investors can talk about these things in an environment that is intelligent. And all of this, we’re building AI behind the scenes to be more and more robust and scalable.
So we’re building something very exciting. I just think that Dustin, I’m excited about what we started here. The podcast we have, I mean, we have a whole lineup of people now that want to be on this podcast. So I’m proud of what we’ve done so far. It’s only been like half a year or so. And I just think the timing’s good and we just have to keep focused and keep incrementing and adding value. And hopefully, we’ll be able to make a difference for
the country for people, for investors, and that’s what it’s all about.
Dustin Olsen (36:58.161)
Absolutely. And I share those same sentiments. We’ve, we’ve come a tremendous way since we started this, leaps and bounds in terms of growth and interest. and it’s truly just validation that there’s a large group of people just hungry for this information to learn more. And that’s, that was our purpose. That was our mission to.
shine a light on, on this and educate people along the way. So, like Daniel said, we’ve got a suite of platforms and ways to learn more. So come to the website, listen to the podcast, which you already are, and join the forum discussions, as much as you can. got a lot’s going on. So, with that, we’ll sign off for this week and we’ll catch you guys next week. Thanks for listening.
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