S2 E64: The Caldera Project: A Deep Dive into Meteoric Resources

Dustin Olsen (00:40)
Hi everyone, welcome back to yet another episode the Rare Earth Exchanges podcast. I'm Dustin joined by my cohost Daniel. And today we have Andy Thomson, who is the CEO Meteoric Resources, an Australian based company. And Andy brings over 30 years international finance and operations experience across the mining sector. Andy, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Daniel O'Connor (00:45)
.

Andy Thomson (01:05)
I'm good, thanks very much Dustin. Just one correction there, I'm not the CEO, I'm the CFO.

Daniel O'Connor (01:10)
you

Dustin Olsen (01:11)
My mistake. I've done that already.

Yes, CFO. Yes. Thank you for being on the show and thanks for that correction. ⁓ Andy, we would love just a quick synopsis what has led you to Meteoric and also where does Meteoric sit today? And I guess what is the elevator pitch for the Caldera project?

Andy Thomson (01:21)
I think.

Daniel O'Connor (01:24)
Okay.

Dustin Olsen (01:38)
that you guys are currently operating out Minas Gerais in Brazil.

Andy Thomson (01:41)
Yeah, sure. And thank you. Thank you both for the invitation. ⁓ Meteroric is an ASX listed company based in Australia with a project in state Minas Gerais Brazil, which is a fantastic address to be operating. Minas Gerais is known as the mining state in Brazil. They've been successfully mining and creating new mines frequently. Such a good address and a very strong, robust mining background and mining act and mining law.

that make it quite easy to follow through the process in order to get through to permitting, which we can talk about later. But what is it?

We've got the caldera project and just to talk around caldera. Caldera essentially in Portuguese means cauldron. And why that's important is that our project is actually inside an extinct volcano. The volcano erupted some 100 million years ago. So you've had about 90 million years weathering. And why that's important is inside the caldera, we have the walls. The constant weathering has broken down the rocks

both chemically and physically to give you a stable clay environment. So our resource is 100 % clay ⁓ and the rare earth elements cling through positive attraction onto the clay lens which makes ⁓ the removal I suppose the elements a much easier ⁓

opportunities later on in the processing.

The walls the caldera, again, why that's important, it stops the lateral movement the clay zones and essentially reduces the amount dilution grade. In our time there, we essentially picked up the project back in late 2022, early 2023, we started drilling, we got our own drill rigs, we've done about 60 or 1000 meters drilling, 35,000 samples, done a lot test work. And we've come up with

a resource about 1.5 billion tons. Let me just let that sink in. 1.5 billion tons.

at a grade about 2,300 ppm. Early part our mining schedule under the PFS will be pushing through a grade about 4,000 ppm. So our time has been spent trying to understand the ore body, how it behaves, where the high grade zones are, and then we continue to do that. And with the ability to really put together a multi-decade sustainable

environmentally friendly product that can be formed to start the critical industry supply chain to the Western world. That's essentially my elevator pitch.

Dustin Olsen (04:37)
That's amazing.

so 1.5 billion tons is a big number. That's a lot. with that, how is that affecting the conversations you're having with others in terms like offtake agreements, things like that?

Andy Thomson (04:54)
I think it's very important to understand that ⁓ number one, are really trying to the the Western world is desperately trying to grow out the supply chain. The supply chain hasn't been evident ⁓ in total for a long, time in the Western world. And when you're talking to downstream

processing companies, what they're looking for is a long term sustainable ⁓ partner that they can rely on to deliver into their systems. People are putting these parts together for multi decades. We can certainly do that. Bearing in mind, just another fact, we've only explored around 20 % our land hold. So we've explored 20%. We've already got 1.5 billion tonnes. It gives you ⁓ an understanding the scalability

the caldera project itself. We can grow this thing out. So project, the plan at the moment is to put together a processing plant that can do about six million tonnes per annum. That's delivering into the market around about 13 and a half thousand tonnes total rare earth oxides, about 20,000 tonnes emmerick per annum.

The size this, when you're talking to downstream partners, they want to understand that this isn't a flash in the pan. This is not a five year opportunity. This can create absolute long term, reliable off take to really solidify and begin that, as I mentioned, the supply chain. There's probably four major parts. There's the mining to Emmerich. Then there is the ⁓ separation to oxide, metallization to alloys and magnetization.

four industries in total to get to your ⁓ magnets. We could easily underpin the beginning that. ⁓ And course, as a business, MeTorik is also looking at where do we go and how far do we go down the downstream. Now that's looking a little bit in the future. Our first, first cable for the rank, our first initiative really is to get the MREC processing plot licensed, constructed and

into production and our goal is to try and do that in 2028, by 2028.

Daniel O'Connor (07:14)
So ⁓ great and it's great to have you Andy and again, it's very important project, you know, let's take a step back for a minute. We're seeing quite a few projects in the Western or ex-China, Western world, United States, Australia, except Brazil. And at the same time, you know, these high-end magnets that are key instrumental for everything from defense

Andy Thomson (07:24)
Yeah.

Daniel O'Connor (07:42)
to robotics, to other high tech products, electric vehicles, require heavy rare earths. currently today, I think it's important that everybody understand that probably about 98%, somewhere in that range heavy rare earths remained separated and refined in China. And within that ⁓ number,

A good deal those ⁓ inputs come from Myanmar. And ⁓ so, you know, we're in a very precarious situation. And, you know, we have this ranking system, we have algorithms that keep the supply chain players ranked based on a number factors. And you all are in that ranking for the heavy rare earths. ⁓

We look at that, so we see the criticality this asset, okay, because that. So let's talk about some key milestones that investors can understand how to understand the company, where it's at in its life cycle, and what are the key ⁓ success milestones. So whether it's a feasibility study, pilot, pilot, processor,

Can you delineate those so that investors watching can understand that?

Andy Thomson (09:05)
Absolutely. Thanks, Daniel. And importantly, yes, so not every rare earth project is the same. They're all different. ⁓ There's 17 rare earth elements in what is termed ⁓ a basket. ⁓ And some unfortunately don't have the heavies. And that is impolite. ⁓

around the gate. We are very fortunate. Our basket ⁓ includes both the heavies and the light. So we've got a very good composite basket.

and it's all in clay and that's also important. We'll talk about that later because the clay, the extraction the rare earths out the clay versus the hard rock is a much simpler and cheaper economic equation and that's important when you are challenging, as you mentioned, China. The vast majority the rare earths coming out China, as you said, coming from Myanmar and the ⁓ ionic clay reserves China and that's their cheap production. That's how they can manage to

down

the price. We can compete. Quite frankly, we can compete. Now that's fantastic. Where are we? 2023, I think 2024, we came up with scoping study. Last year, we delivered or published our pre-feasibility study, which came up with a 6 million tonnes per annum. As I mentioned, 39,000 tonnes total rare earth oxides.

Inside that, there's around about 4,000, just over 4,000 tons NDPR. Why that's important? That's the magnetics, the light magnetics. That equates to around about 10 to 11,000 tons sintered magnets per year.

The US demand, my understanding, is around about 10 to 12,000 tons sintered magnets per annum. So let's go back in the story. What are we going to be producing on an annualized basis? Around about 4,000 tons NDPR annually for decades. This is project number one. We have scalability. We can increase this, but we need to get up and running. We need to get up to running quickly and stop pushing in

Daniel O'Connor (11:13)
Thank

Andy Thomson (11:19)
pushing the product to market. The 4,000 tonnes, when you look at converting that and using just standard metrics that are available on the internet, it'll tell you that 4,000 tonnes NDPI will give you about 11,000 tonnes sintered magnets. Magnets are what everybody's on. So conceivably, the caldera could essentially be the feedstock for the supply chain.

Daniel O'Connor (11:24)
Yeah.

Andy Thomson (11:46)
We've got important in Brazil, you want to know where we are. Brazil has three major milestones for licensing and permitting. The first one is the environmental permit, which is in Brazil is called the LP. This is the most exhaustive license to get, as you can imagine, it impacts, it's not only environmental, but it's your social license to operate. And you really need to do a good job.

Daniel O'Connor (12:00)
Mm-hmm.

Andy Thomson (12:12)
or the study work in order to get this through the licensing process. And I suggest that we did that particularly well. We received our license.

in back end December or 20th, 21st, I think December last year was a wonderful Christmas present for us to get. So that is an unrestricted license. All right. So we've got the license we move forward. Once you have the LP or the environmental license, you move on to what in Brazil is called the LI, license to implement or construction license. This is a more a technical license. What are you building? How are you building it? What does it look like? Does it comply with all the

standards and regulations within Brazil. We submitted our paper on that a couple months ago and we expect or last month and we expect that to take up to six months. So we look in Q3 for the license to implement or the construction license permit to be delivered.

Back in Australia and with our counterparts in Brazil, it's a tandem effort. are doing our DFS, definitive feasibility study. And that's now taking the PFS detail and really putting it through the ring and understanding.

exactly what this plant looks like. The capex to the plant in the PFS was around $450 million. As a finance guy, it's a kind number I focus on. It is the capital expenditure to put the project together. I keep focus on that and try to get the guys to make sure we still deliver to that value or there or thereabouts. There are some variables which we can't, Daniel, unfortunately manage, for example, exchange rates. mean, you know,

The best will in the world, you can't mitigate against the change in that. But nonetheless, we're focusing on the deep best, which we hope to get out by mid-year this year. So it's all about hurdles.

Daniel O'Connor (13:57)
Right.

Can you, sorry to interrupt

you, it's very important. So this is very helpful, I think, for the audience to understand, especially investors looking at stages. The DFS, could you walk us and the audience a little bit more through what that is? What is the DFS? What does it constitute? Why is it important? And once you have it done, what is the implication?

Andy Thomson (14:27)
Sure. DFS simply is a de-risking study. In normal terms, there's probably three studies people go through. A scoping study, which is a very high level, lot thumb sucking and experience motivated numbers being put in. And it's got an accuracy about 45 % percent. That's called a scoping study, which we went through. In fact, we did two scoping studies. the studies start right from the mining.

the where you mine, how you mine, how much it's to cost you to mine, the moving the mined product to the process plant, the construction the process plant, the workflow the process ⁓ plant itself. So you feed the ore into the process plant and all the costs associated to extracting the rare earth oxides or MREC are

I suppose evaluated based on what kind workflow you look at. Now it's important to understand why the ionic absorption clay product resource is different to hard ⁓ rock. My chairman mentioned this once before. ⁓ The rare earth…

elements actually cling to a ⁓ clay lens at microscopic level what it looks like pretty much the flat surface with these pebbles rare earths attached to it on the surface and it's positively ⁓ attached right it's a sort a chemical process we then wash it so then in the mining site there's no drill blast because it's clay you just simply dig it up at the process plant there's

crushing or grinding because it's clay. You throw it, there's a bit screening, push it through the pond and you wash it with ammonium sulfate. The ammonium sulfate replaces the rare earth elements. The rare earth elements come off into a solution. We precipitate that to an emmerick mixed rare earth carbonate. It's like a white product.

We then extract as much water and ammonium sulfate out the solution so that the spent clays are now getting dried out a little bit and we try and put that back into the void the mine where we just took it out . So it's a full loop. You take it out the ground, you put it through the process plant, you dry it off a bit, you put it back in the ground. All that.

needs to be studied. That's what the PFS studies are all about. It's understanding what does that plant look like? How much does it cost to put together? How much does it cost to actually process and feed the stuff at six million tonnes per year? We've got power, we've got reagents, we've got human beings. ⁓

and everything that goes around a mine. I often refer to it as pretty much like an orchestra, right? An orchestra, you've got all these different instruments left, right and center that may or may not sound quite good on their own, but when you put them together is an amazing sound. So you've got this mine which starts with the ore body, through a processing part. That is all done at study level, through scoping. PFS is a margin error, I believe,

Daniel O'Connor (17:21)
Thank

Yeah.

Andy Thomson (17:49)
30%. There is an engineering standard that. DFS, definitive feasibility study. The margin ⁓ is around about 15 % accuracy. So Daniel, what we've done is taken the study work and we've used an external company called Orsenco. We've got operations ⁓ globally, but importantly, they've got operations. It's a company called Orsenco. They're a tier one

Daniel O'Connor (18:09)
So, sorry, Andy, what was the name the company?

Okay.

Andy Thomson (18:15)
consulting company with offices in Brazil and that's important because at the DFS stage

Daniel O'Connor (18:17)
Gotcha.

Andy Thomson (18:22)
We're now trying to understand what are the costs inside Brazil. It's pointless taking an economic study an arbitrary ⁓ or similar mine in Australia and trying to use the same numbers. It's got to be relevant to the environment within which you operate and we are operating, we are wholly in Brazil. mean, currently we've got over 60 staff there, we've got a great crew, we're building up the technical understanding and the such. So we're using…

Or Senco as one our partners to build the definitive feasibility study under our control using their teams in ⁓ Brazil. So we understand at the end the day, how much it's going to cost us to build it, how long it's going to take to build it, what does it look like and how do we operate it.

And all those combined gives us an economic study called the definitive feasibility study that has got such a reasonable accuracy. You can then take that to financial intermediaries to essentially go for your debt or your equity to raise funds in order to put the project together.

Daniel O'Connor (19:27)
So just on that note, once ⁓ for ⁓ a mining venture such as Meteoric, once you have this ⁓ feasibility study, it probably is a trigger for financing or for partnerships, Would you say that's a major trigger point?

Andy Thomson (19:50)
Yeah, again Daniel, ⁓

We internally, we've got a very robust strict control mechanism. think one the success milestones, I suppose, that we look at ourselves is how we have right from the get go, we have set up a series steps, de-risking steps that allow us to go through ultimately to get to the construction or production phase. Each these are well thought out and they work pretty much like a series dominoes. You need to do the study work in order to

get the information to do the next part the study. Where we are at the moment, course, we're now looking at the team doing the DFS.

We've also got a bunch us looking at offtake partners globally. These are the people who in the first instance will be taking our product into their systems and their processes. And they will be, if you take an MREC product, for example, they need to take that to separate the mixed rare earth carbonate. So that's the mixture all 17 elements. The next step down the chain will be an organization that will essentially separate those into

the oxides that can be used by different industries. And in a lot instances, we're talking about the magnetics.

So the juggle at the moment is we need to do this feasibility study. We need to get offtake partners. Now, the offtake partner conversation is one that boils. It's obviously on the top everyone's tongue at the moment. What's going on? Where are we getting supply from? Who can we get it from? We are fielding our pilot plant, which has been operational in Brazil since December.

It's a wonderful way. Number one, it's proving that it's not just a concept. It's now real. We can do it. We can do it consistently. We're producing MREC that goes to the offtakers for their analysis, but also gives us the optionality to see what we want to do down the line. ⁓ And then with that product, ⁓ the project, the pilot plant.

our off-take partners and interested parties down the cycle can come to site. They can physically see it in operation. They can meet the teams. They can meet the people that physically are going through it and get their sample, take it back, have a look what they need to do it. And we can then start to, from an MOU, Memorable Understanding, into binding agreement. So again, that's going to occur sometime this year with a PFS.

Daniel O'Connor (22:19)
And Andy, sorry, just

to interject and sorry to interrupt you, it's important. The pilot facility that's in Brazil is, I believe it was $300 million effort. Is that true?

Andy Thomson (22:22)
Yes, sure.

no, no, And so the pilot plant probably cost us in total about $2 million to put together. It is a mini pilot, right? It's producing a…

Daniel O'Connor (22:41)
Okay.

But where do we see that number? We

saw a $300 million number, I remember, ⁓ associated with that effort. Maybe that's, well, either way. So it's nowhere near that number. You have that built up, you have that developed, and you're producing pilot ⁓ output that allows you to get a better understanding. You can show alf takers. That's very exciting that you're at that stage.

Andy Thomson (23:09)
Yeah, I one .

Not many. I'm not too sure globally who's got a pilot plant in operation that you can go and see and touch and understand and see the process. Most the operations globally, Western ones, are hard rock operations, which are completely different to our. There's a different process. And there's been a lot skepticism that we could pull this off. I think the naysayers were going, it will never work. Well, actually, it does work. It works. We've got to

We are producing EmRic and I go back to nothing.

All the people in Brazil are our own staff now. The education, the quality, the skills, the growth them is all hands-on tools. This is wonderful. Our research and development teams are exploding. We're understanding, and this is very important, very, very important. Let's not forget the geology. We were gifted by this anomaly globally an ionic absorption clay, which is stuck inside a volcano, cannot move.

very few, if any, globally that can match the grade and the recoverability the original source resource. They don't come, you know, these are rare. These are the vitratus, right, the gold world. This is what this represents. And it's in the caldera and we've only explored 20 % it. So the rarest you can find. That geology.

Daniel O'Connor (24:36)
So on that note,

I was going to ask you though, with some the light rare earths, the monzeneite, you can have thorium. Is there any radioactive components to this? And if so, I would imagine you have a process to work with it, mitigate it.

Andy Thomson (24:56)
It's a good question Daniel and again I'm not an metallurgist but my understanding the radionuclide values are way way below

international standards. don't even need to register as a radioactive material when you ship it internationally. the yeah, absolutely. You know, as I get this is a freak nature. Yeah, we've got the license to explore and develop. Someone called it a unicorn once. Beautiful. We'll take that money.

Daniel O'Connor (25:11)
Really?

⁓ So Andy,

so you're saying, again sorry to interrupt, but you're saying that the MREC that's produced from the mine can be shipped pretty much as a normal geological product and not a radioactive product.

Wow, I think that's not always the case. So that's very nice.

Andy Thomson (25:47)
⁓ Yeah, we've sent samples to a number jurisdictions that got quite sticky on the radionuclide balance. I can't remember what the numbers are. We've just gone through an exercise now where we've had some double checking on that and got certification and they've been sent off. yeah, the outcome and look, very happy to field calls. ⁓

Daniel O'Connor (26:01)
Right.

Andy Thomson (26:16)
questions that we can hand to our metallurgists that they can give a little bit more detail. There is stuff on our website and on our PFS documentation that talks around this. The original study work was done through ANSTO, which is the Australian Science Technology Organization. They're the guys that are sort number one, number two in the world for this sort study work. So it's very reputable. And we're, you know, we're very, very happy with the outcome.

And as mentioned, we are now replicating what they did in the labs on site in Posterstekalbes, which is the local village, local town, so say, where our research and development factory is.

Daniel O'Connor (26:56)
So, okay, so I have a few more questions, but Dustin, please ⁓ jump in. I don't want to monopolize the time. And ⁓ I definitely have a few more to ⁓ jump into associated with the separation, but please.

Dustin Olsen (27:03)
Thanks.

Yes, so Andy, you were talking about the three stage environmental licensing process in Brazil. I curious to know from your experience throughout your career, what is it like working with Brazil and going through that process compared to maybe some other countries?

Andy Thomson (27:29)
Good question. I would say the…

the mechanisms in the process, local, state, municipal, state and federally are very well embedded. There are so many mines in the Minas Gerais for example, that have been created over time. It's a well-trodden pathway to get these permits in. What we have to do, as I suppose foreigners inside the country, is understand what the requirements are. Do the work.

We have spent, as I mentioned earlier, I think we've done 50 or 1000 meters drilling, loads samples, loads metallurgy test work, the environmental permitting test work to do with monitoring and such. We did it. We did it to the level and the scope as required. Now, if you follow these steps as it's stated and you put the documentation together and you're very good at ⁓ essentially putting these ⁓ these steps together in a

a formal format that delivers to their expectations. Well, then you go into this process that really does facilitate the startup operations. We are also bit gifted because the strategic minerals, as they're called in Brazil, were given a priority status. And we as a company got priority status for some our permitting. It doesn't mean you can do any less work.

What it does mean is when you submit your paperwork, you are put to the pride. You put to the top the queue so get the people look at the process first. So what do I, how do I feel? And Brazil is comparative to the rest the world. Well, it's, I would suggest it is far more efficient than Australia. Number one, I don't think you'd be able to do this in the same time scale. In fact, I know you wouldn't be able to it in Australia. I think it's got a very, very,

experienced series departments that are used to going through this process and they are efficient. They're very good with the communication and ultimately the reward for the effort comes by getting the permit on time.

Dustin Olsen (29:38)
great to hear. ⁓ So we've we talked about here on the show too that the time from start to production for a mine is about 17 years. Is that a similar timeline? mean, Brazil sounds very sounds like a dream. But what what does that timeline look like compared to what you guys are building out?

Daniel O'Connor (29:42)
. .

Andy Thomson (30:01)
Well, let's take ourselves. We picked up the project back in 2022.

We got

the licensed areas to explore and did the deal with them in 2022. We started on the ground. think our chairman was our number one employee in 2023. And we quickly filled up the gaps to put a team together to push the thing. That's 2023. We bought our own drill rigs. We bought our own drilling specialist drill teams. We threw them in there. just, we essentially motored through all those early stage exploration and feasibility studies.

Daniel O'Connor (30:08)
Okay. you

Andy Thomson (30:38)
24 I think was when we did the scoping study,

Daniel O'Connor (30:38)
you

Andy Thomson (30:40)
25 we did the PFS licensing, we got the environmental licensing, 25. If we get the construction license in this year…

and subject to funding, we could start constructing in this physical year. The construct is, and again, it's subject to how much money you want to throw at it, but it's about an 18 month to two year program. So 26, 27, 28. We could be in production 2028. That is…

world class. I doubt any jurisdiction globally outside China, for example, would allow and facilitate putting together a mine in that speed and comply with all the rules and regulations that are required. And I would say that some the, ⁓ when you talk around some the rules about safety and adherence to managing safety protocols,

They've got a very, very high standard. So there is no shortcut to this. Brazil just does it efficiently.

Daniel O'Connor (31:44)
So, it is. So, ⁓ jump back into this. So, and then I want to get into ⁓ what the CAPEX is and ⁓ ultimately the OPEX. So, we have four stages in the ⁓ mined metal supply chain. have ⁓ mined MREC, okay? And that's where you all are and you have this very valuable ⁓

Dustin Olsen (31:44)
That's good to hear. It's really exciting.

Andy Thomson (31:47)
Yeah.

Pretty much.

Daniel O'Connor (32:12)
deposit, especially with the heavy rare earths which are difficult to access and currently monopolized in China. So that's very, very important. And you're in the process refining that and getting to a point where you'll, through that final ⁓ report that we discussed, you'll be in a place to really understand the economics the asset. Then the separation.

I'm assuming this will happen on premise. I'm assuming it will, right? Or is that a wrong assumption?

Andy Thomson (32:48)
At the moment, project, the first project we're doing is simply to produce an MREC ⁓ output, which is a mixed rare earth carbonate. ⁓ And we will then be selling that onto off-takers who will then separate that. we want the initial phase this project, which we're talking about, is to deliver an MREC product into the market, into the Western supply plan.

Daniel O'Connor (33:05)
Got it. OK.

Got

it.

Andy Thomson (33:14)
Of course, we are producing our own MREC currently and we're doing some study work around separation. Now, separation again, just to make it a little bit more muddy. Separation comes in… ⁓

multiple different flavors. You can have what people call first cut or rough cut separation, which is essentially it removes quite a lot the non-valuable parts your basket. this could be done reasonably, when I say reasonably, engineering and metallurgy needs to occur. But this could ⁓ occur reasonably easily. Then you go down to the more

I suppose more focused area where you're trying to separate your magnetic set, NDPR, DYTB. A lot more effort and time there. That is not on our specific radar at the moment. It is not in our PFS or our DFS. We're focusing on EmRig. Are we looking at what should we do strategically? Absolutely, Daniel. We're a growing business. We have the starter

Daniel O'Connor (34:22)
Right.

Andy Thomson (34:26)
We've got the beginning the supply chain. It would be remiss us as executives not to be looking at and saying where does the value our operation extend to.

Daniel O'Connor (34:39)
Right, yes, because if you were able to do that, ⁓ the valuation the company would skyrocket. Don't get me wrong, it'll be valuable just to get ⁓ MREC with the requisite heavy rare earths. That would be very, very valuable and just more valuable. The metalization, that's a different ball game. then the magnet.

As far as I believe you have, I think you had a partnership with UCore, at least a MOU. So you're looking at the partnerships. Is that being done? Do you do that when you go and do the business development work for a company that's at this stage? ⁓ Is it? ⁓

Andy Thomson (35:12)
Sure.

Daniel O'Connor (35:30)
Is it more opportunistic in your network or is it more precision? you nail down, you will call down exactly who you want to work with. How does that, can you explain a little bit for folks how that works?

Andy Thomson (35:45)
sure.

Look, I think it's fair to say if we had the same conversation two years ago, ⁓ we would be scratching the surface to try and understand who are the businesses globally who actually are on the component parts downstream, the separators and stuff like that. What has occurred in the last year as the profile the rare earths ⁓ and the criticality the supply chain has become is we've got so

many

more people, so many more opportunities in the market, not only in the US, but certainly there's a lot activity in the US, which is massively exciting to us. And yes, we certainly did. We've got some MOUs with UCOR, with their Rapid ESX and Neo Performance Materials, which has a magnet making facility. So they go through the entire process to magnet making in Estonia, in Europe.

Daniel O'Connor (36:40)
Yes.

Andy Thomson (36:41)
We had early engagement with these guys, these teams, not only because , you know, they've been in the market a long time in, in, in, you cause,

area, it was a great synergy, I think, with a great team. And we continue that. So very strong relationship with those guys. We're still building that out. We're still looking at where we can go with that. And, you know, again, as I mentioned earlier on, in this year, it'll be time to finalise and get those agreements a little bit more tight.

But there are a number similar businesses. mean, you've got, for example, E &P Materials, a very well-known US company who really could do with some, I suppose, some feedstock with heavies.

And then a number organizations, there's a number organizations throughout the US who we are talking to. I can't give our names, but we're delivering them. EmRec, they've been to site. We've all had a good look. And we are starting to open conversations about where are the synergies. And I guess when you start to talk at that level, Daniel, you start looking at what is their objective? What is their vision? And does it dovetail with our vision? Our vision is

Daniel O'Connor (37:56)
100

Andy Thomson (37:57)
to you.

Daniel O'Connor (37:57)
% no Andy, you know, we have this ⁓ thesis called the great powers era 2.0 and that is that we're sort entering into a new phase modern history and ⁓ part that is going to be defined power is going to be in part defined by your supply chains and you're seeing it now different nations

and groups nations and companies ⁓ configuring themselves to build out these supply chains that can help you, whichever society really navigate the next 20, 50 years. So I think it's an enormous opportunity for your company.

Andy Thomson (38:35)
Yep.

Yeah, you know, you're absolutely right. When you look at the size the Caldera project.

Let's go back to what we said right at the opening stanza here was 1.5 billion times. Just put that into how long this thing could and should be operational for our children's children. That's how big this thing is. It is enormous and it can, ⁓ if treated well, if looked after, if developed, it is multi-generational. ⁓

Let's focus on the hero now. It's certainly multi-decade. We want to be in partnerships with organizations that have the ability, the desire, the wisdom and the dynamics to also go for the long haul. Now, there are, there is great technologies coming up. mean, separation, for example.

has been around for decades upon decades. It was shifted across from US and Europe, plunked in China and left there. course, the IP grew there. But that's not the only way to separate a rare earth. There are multiple and you cause a classic, right? There are multiple.

partnerships. We're also in a partnership with MTM, Metallium, and they've got this flash dual heating, which is based out the US. This would be a game changer if we can assist them getting product so they can essentially continue their test work to build that out at a scale that could join into the supply chain. So it's a wonderful opportunity. What we deliver

⁓ is consistent high quality heavy and light feedstock into the market for the other players to take advantage .

Daniel O'Connor (40:34)
No, I think it's quite exciting. If we look at the investment that is going to be needed to execute, let us just say we're 2028 and you're starting to supply that MREC that's going to be used in, you know, whether it's defense or automotive or what have you, ⁓ how far along are you in your financing journey to ensure that that's

in place.

Andy Thomson (41:03)
Good point. We, I suppose, I'd like to say we do not want to strike early. ⁓ We're developing the package, we're developing the value proposition. There's got to be a healthy balance debt and equity. It's still there's a lot , I suppose, de-risking parts, the DFS and the LI.

are part that. And we're talking to a number parts. So strategics we look at, every facet financial support we're looking at and not discounting any at the moment. The opportunities.

We're in a wonderful situation where I think we are getting much more global ⁓ marketing coverage because simply what we stand for. The business, the management team, the ore body and the development so far has essentially pivoted us to a point where we are a valuable opportunity. Now we need to find our partners and that mixture. And from the finance background, we need to find a really healthy, ⁓ well-balanced funding

solution that gives us the opportunity not only to get up and running as quick as possible. That's important, but it's not the only thing. We also have to look at our own expansion requirements and we want to join and have partners who are going to facilitate that opportunity to expand. So there is no right answer to you there, Daniel, other than we're very much in those conversations at the moment. I'm very excited about the next step going forward.

⁓ And, you know, this year, 2026 for us is a major pivotal year because it's a confluence a lot activities. Go back to the orchestra, where you've got these different areas that are going to come together to make the whole. ⁓

instead parts it's going to become the whole. So you've got the feasibility studies, you've got the permitting studies, you've got the marketing, the off-tax, the financing all coming in in one big solution in this year which is busy. We do a lot traveling. Our MD will be across the states again later this month and I'll be in Brazil later this month but you know it's an exciting project, it's wonderful to be part .

Dustin Olsen (43:26)
That's all very exciting, Andy. And you guys have a lot going for you in terms size the project, the speed in which you'll probably hopefully able to get into production. And a lot people will be interested in what you're doing and just being able to supply them with what they need. It's really exciting. And we hope to have you on the show in the future to give us an update as you guys progress and get even closer to your

big milestones in the future. ⁓ Andy, for those that are interested in maybe getting involved with what Meteoric is doing, what is the best place for them to go to connect?

Andy Thomson (44:04)
Look, course, you can send me an email. Our website has a lot information about what we're doing. We try to keep that up to date as much as possible. all three, the chairman, myself and the managing director go to as many conferences. So reach out if you want to speak to one us, please feel free to reach out on our email addresses. We'd love to have a chat with people.

And yeah, if there's additional questions, feel them through yourself. I'm happy to do that. And we can get whichever technical specialist, we've got a wonderful in-house technical team, some the best guys in the rare earth industry globally that are supporting us, which is fantastic to have. And we'll just answer as they come through. So you reach out, we're more than happy to chat.

Dustin Olsen (44:54)
Absolutely. So your

website just for those that are listening is meteoric.com.au. Go there for more information and to connect. Andy, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your wealth knowledge not only about ⁓ the Caldera project, but also your experience as well throughout your tenured career. ⁓ Hope to have you back.

Andy Thomson (45:01)
commit.

Yes.

Daniel O'Connor (45:18)
I

Andy Thomson (45:18)
Thank you.

Daniel O'Connor (45:19)
was just gonna say one last thing Dustin. This is one the few credible ex-China ⁓ ionic clays with heavy rare earth plays out there. So kudos, congratulations for making it this far. You're part the process ⁓ liberating supply chains and that's why we exist.

Andy Thomson (45:34)
Thanks.

Thank you. We're very proud. We're proud the project. We're proud the team. And we're really all excited for this year. So thank you very much for having me on today.

Dustin Olsen (45:48)
Absolutely, thanks.

Andy Thomson (45:49)
Thanks guys.